Chinese Export…?
I have to admit it: I used this joke. But I have heard other CE marking consultants use it on many occasions. In fact, I think it is one of the most used jokes in presentations about CE marking:
“What do the letters CE in CE marking stand for?”
The presenter then should proceed with a smile and say: “Some people think it means Chinese Export…”. (for those of you who do not know the right answer: CE originally stood for Conformité Européenne or European Conformity)
I came across this hilarious video on YouTube, posted by a Czech member of the European parliament. She must have participated in one of my colleagues’ sessions. Will somebody inform her that it was a JOKE.
Click this button to watch the video full screen (requires Flash Player 9.0 +)
UPDATE: The European Commission has answered the formal questions of Ms. Zuzana Roithová. The reply reads as follows:
Answer given by Mr Verheugen on behalf of the Commission
The Commission is aware that there exists the misconception attributing CE marking the meaning ‘Chinese export’. The Commission is not aware of the existence of a ‘China export mark’ but considers that the mark the Honourable Member refers to constitute the CE marking as foreseen in the European legislation without, however, respecting the dimensions and proportions prescribed therein.
The Commission is aware that CE marking, like any other mark, is misused, e.g. CE marking is affixed to products which do not fulfil the requirements and conditions for its affixing or it is affixed to products for which the affixing is not foreseen. There are also cases where, whilst the product is in compliance with the applicable requirements the CE marking itself does not respect the formal requirements, namely the form of the CE marking or the dimensions and proportions prescribed in the legislation.
The Commission considers market surveillance to be the crucial element to prevent CE marking from being misused. According to the principle of subsidiarity market surveillance is primarily a task of the Member States. Products bearing CE marking although they do not comply with the applicable requirements must be identified by the national competent authorities and subsequently be withdrawn from the market.
As market surveillance does not work on a uniform level throughout the EU the Commission deems it necessary to establish a comprehensive Community legislative framework in order to ensure coherent market surveillance. The Commission, therefore, proposed a draft Regulation setting out the requirements for market surveillance relating to the marketing of products(1). This draft Regulation aims at strengthening market surveillance for industrial products and making it more effective and more efficient in all Member States, consumer goods already being covered by the General Product Safety Directive(2). The proposal sets out minimum requirements in terms of resources and surveillance activities and establishes cooperation and information obligations between authorities, both on a national level and across borders. Furthermore, it will establish an obligation for Member States to execute appropriate checks on the characteristics of a product on an adequate scale before it is released for free circulation. In addition it will introduce the possibility for national authorities to destroy non-compliant products. It also provides for the legal basis for Member States to impose sanctions in the case of misuse which should serve as a deterrent. However, it is up to Member States to actually use this power.
The Commission is in constant discussion with Chinese authorities in order to ensure that Chinese exporters respect Community legislation.
The Commission has already initiated the procedure to register CE marking as a Community collective trademark. National market surveillance authorities will have an additional means to take legal action against manufacturers providing non-compliant products and misusing CE marking. In addition, economic operators/competitors will be entitled to bring proceedings for infringement and to claim for compensation.
(1) COM(2007)37 final.
(2) Directive 2001/95/EC of the Parliament and of the Council of 3 December 2001 on general product safety, OJ L 11, 15.1.2002.
The answer can also be found at the following url:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getAllAnswers.do?reference=P-2007-5938&language=FR
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October 22nd, 2008 at 9:19 am
its doesnt have any clue with some kind of joke. these two signs are DIFFERENT. the chinese mark have nothing to do with the european conformity. they use that sign, which is very similar to the real one, only to confuse the consumers…
October 22nd, 2008 at 9:30 am
Andrej, you must have VERY good eyes. I really don’t see the difference between the two markings she shows.
Trust me, this is “Chinese Export” story is used as a joke, because so many products manufactured in China carry the CE marking.
November 2nd, 2008 at 8:08 pm
To see the difference, you have to imagine that each letter forms half of one circle.
If the circles don’t collide, it’s a European Conformity mark.
If the circles collide, it’s a China export mark.
November 6th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
I know this joke but I do have to agree with Andrej & Gary ; this lady is totally right. The Chinese came up with a slightly different, misleading logo and importers and consumers have to be aware of that.
Please check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_mark section Fake Mark for your reference.
(I do agree with her that the EU should try to do something against this misleading confusion.)
November 6th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
By the way, Han, I noticed before that your logo looks more like the Chinese logo than the official European one.. you might want to change that.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Marieke. The only information I can find on the Chinese Export mark is only information that refers back to the Czech lady. There is no website that confirms the existing of an official “Chinese Export” mark. If you found such a website, let me know. And excuse me of disqualifying Wikipedia. It is hardly an independent reference source.
What the whole story proves is the following:
You cannot just trust the CE logo on a product. In particular when you are importing products with the intension of reselling in Europe. Importers are recommended to check supporting compliance documents (such as the Declaration of Conformity).
February 11th, 2009 at 2:47 am
It’s a joke or not? How can we verify if there is such China Export marks exist? Searching with the key words “CE China Export” in Yahoo I found the site of a Hong Kong based commerce consultant firm, http://technology.hktdc.com , and they do not seem to take it as a joke.
Please offer some guidance to verify if it is joke. Thank you.
February 28th, 2009 at 9:54 am
Adrian, my point is that
1. I know CE marking consultants even 15 years ago in their training sessions were making this joke: “What does CE stand for?” Some people think it stands for Chinese Export, because a lot of the products that have the CE marking are produced in China”. Even I have made that joke.
2. Before publishing this post, I have searched everywhere on the internet to find an organization or body or company that offers services that will get you the “Chinese Export Mark”. I haven’t found it. Not even when I tried again just now.
3. The page of the ‘consulting’ company you refer to, does nowhere offer services to get the Chinese Export Marking. On the contrary, they have an article on their website in which they warn for the MISCONCEPTION that CE may be perceived as Chinese Export Marking: http://toys.hktdc.com/toys/suc-e-toys10.htm?w_sid=194&w_pid=1429&w_nid=&w_cid=&w_idt=1900-01-01&w_oid=203&w_jid=
This ‘Chinese Export’ mark has started with a joke, more than 15 years ago. And now some people believe that there really is such a mark. The lady in the video is a good example. She notes that there is a Chinese Export mark that is causing confusion. THERE IS NO SUCH MARK. However, there ARE misuses of the CE mark. There are cases in which the official format of the CE mark is not respected. That is serious. That is not a joke. I agree with you.
I hope this clarifies what I intended to say with this post.
March 14th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Han Zuyderwijk, you are wrong. Here you can read the document that EU produced when launching the CE marking in 1993. There you will see for yourself that they have stated that the C forms a circle that meet the E in the end. If the two letters are closer together it is a fake.
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/mechan_equipment/ppe/of_journ/93-68-eec.pdf
Where as this pirated version is in use by Chinese (hardly on their own anyway) is harder to tell because I don’t think they have produced a official goverment document on how they can pirate their way in on the European market. If they have, it’s probably in Chinese.
The joke probably came up as someone misunderstood something or it was remembered wrongly when it went from person to person. But you said it started 15 years ago when the CE marking started so a good guess would be that the joke was true at first then the pirated version was actually created in reality!
All things aside: there is a pirated version and now you have the proof.
Are you a CE marking consultant? If so, why haven’t you even read the official documents and rules governing CE marking?
March 14th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Sebastian,
I am not saying there are no false CE markings. I know there are many products that are false CE marked. Even products that have a CE marking with the right dimensions.
I am familiar with this document. It shows how the CE marking should be designed. If the letters C and E are too close to eachother, it means that they are not in accordance with the rules, that much is true.
However, I restate what I have said before: there is no official Chinese Export marking. And when a product has a C and an E which are to close to eachother, that is no proof of the fact that a Chinese Export marking exists! It only proves that the manufacturer did not read the requirements carefully enough. And it is an indication that the product itself may also not be in conformity with the CE requirements.
March 15th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Sorry for the misunderstanding. Yeah it sounds quite possible that their is no official Chinese Export mark made to look like the official CE marking. And if their is an unofficial one it demands quite a lot of research to prove it.
That said it’s quite safe to say that China is one of the large producers in this world and also one of the large producers of pirated products (i’m just guessing here) so they should most likely also be one of the worlds largest users of pirated CE marking (more guesses). Which, in a humorous way, should earn the false CE marking the name “Chinese Export”. Just to confuse everyone
But maybe that was the joke?
So there are actually legit manufacturers of CE products who misprint the CE marking? If they can’t even get the logo right it sounds like they probably haven’t got anything right
April 18th, 2009 at 12:25 am
Han: You are missing the point. It is totally unimportant if there is a “official” CE-lookalike or if not. The undisputed fact is, that many many products from China carry those fake CE marks and are also not certified as CE conforming. Some suspect that those fake CE signs are different from the “real” CE sign by purpose so that nobody can claim that they have faked the CE sign (which is, as you know, strictly specified). You are ranting here to no good, because the important message is that people need to watch out for fake CE signs which are a fact. Oh and btw. the czech politican has not claimed that the fake CE sign is a official chinese sign. You should rewatch the video.
April 18th, 2009 at 8:26 am
Hi Hans,
Thank you for your contribution in this discussion.
Like I stated before, I agree that it is serious that there are products on the market that do not comply. There are simply too many, as you can see from the notifications published by the European Commission: http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/dyna/rapex/rapex_archives_en.cfm.
The politician says: “…I discovered another marking that symbolizes something completely different. This marking said that the product was produced in China.” If her point is to warn that some manufacturers do use a slightly different CE marking to confuse consumers, then she presented it not very clear. Maybe her point got lost in the interpretation…
But even if that is her point, its not useful to focus on the “Chinese Export” logo. Because there are many products in the market that have a CE marking with the correct dimensions that do not comply. There are also a lot of products that do not have a correct CE marking that do comply with the rules (except for the rules about how to display the CE marking
).
Moreover, intentionally affixing a fake CE marking to confuse consumers is not very smart: any marking that resemble the CE marking and that could cause such a confusion is prohibited. The current rules already provide the authorities with the competence to take measures against such confusing markings.
But Hans, I realize that you are right I shouldn’t make fun of an attempts to protect against unsafe and non-compliant products. On the contrary, I should support it. And perhaps you and other readers are willing to help? If you see a product that clearly does not comply and that has a CE marking, or if you see a product with a fake marking, take a picture of it and send it to me or post it here. Of course you may also report it that to one of the following authorities: http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/safety/rapex/contact_points.pdf
April 18th, 2009 at 8:52 am
[...] We have a nice discussion about fake CE markings in the following post: http://www.cemarking.tv/2008/08/25/chinese-export/ [...]
April 18th, 2009 at 8:56 am
Please send me your pictures of false CE marked products. I will publish them here. In the following post I give one example of a false CE marking:
http://www.cemarking.tv/2009/04/18/fake-ce-markings/
April 24th, 2009 at 8:50 am
[...] example of a fake CE marking took me by complete surprise. As you remember, we are discussing fake CE markings. And I just posted this example of a fake CE marking. I went out with my wife and daughter to a [...]
April 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
[...] ever drank This example of a fake CE marking took me by complete surprise. As you remember, we are discussing fake CE markings. And I just posted this example of a fake CE marking. I went out with my wife and daughter to a [...]
August 18th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
hello Everybody, I have some questions about the CE marking:
Can somebody tell me if this CE marking is fake? This company put in his website this: The regulators are CE approved to EN12864 by DGP; Danish Governmental Gas Institute
But when you see the CE mark is similiar to fake “chinese export” mark.
this is the website:
http://www.igt-lpg.com/profile.html
Check the CE mark on the top of the regulators :
http://dk105837382.trustpass.alibaba.com/product/105538504-0/LPG_regulator.html
Thanks
December 9th, 2009 at 6:27 am
Youtube is blocked in China so can’t see video.
There is lot talk regards “Fake CE Marking” or better put manufacturer declaring to meet a relevant directive when in fact he has not.
Regards the regulators it appears the Notified Body is Danish Institute of Fire and Security Technology Notifed Body number 0845. The maker is not displaying certificates on the site. If they should ahve a Module B (Type Examination) Certificate and one for ongoing or manufacture such as Module D. Also as part of the Directive requirement the maker must issue a DoC (Declaration of Conformity) which should accompany each product. Also it is likely they would have annual factory inspection under Module D (thats if they chose this route) as for a copy of last report, they not abiliged to give if though but it just shows there is on going assessment going on.
As a buyer many just accept a DoC or copies of Certificates really not looking further than that they get fingers burt when then realise they not real. Look deeper if they are half decent company they will give you supporting documents if they want you business. Not all Chinese companies are out to mislead they themselves have been mislead in getting incorrect certficiation. Buyer needs to be aware.